Language_Mission_KR_06262024

Okay, I just hit record. This is Kenya Rodriguez. Today is June 26. And I'm here in the [COMMUNITY NAME] for an interview with one of our community members. Before we begin, I'd like to get verbal consent for the form that we went over. Could you please say "I consent to being interviewed and audio recorded for this study?"

I consent to being interviewed for this audio [CONFUSED TONE & SHORT PAUSE] study. 

Okay, so, um, this is the first module, really, we're just gonna [SHORT PAUSE] kind of try to get to know you. And you're just gonna tell me about your experience living in this community. So can you tell me how you came to live in this community? 

I was born here. [PAUSE] In 1960, December 16 1960, at the age of three years old, or 1963, we moved to [CITY IN ILLINOIS] where we lived approximately 10 years, we moved back to [COMMUNITY NAME] Texas in the summer of nineteen seventy- [THINKING IN HEAD, SHORT PAUSE] two. [SHORT PAUSE] 72 or maybe 73. 

And why did you? Uh, why did you move down here? 

My parents were, were [SHORT PAUSE] um, always panning on moving back to Texas, it was [SHORT PAUSE] uh, my mother's decision. There's various stories, but one was-one possibility is that my mom never could adapt to [CITY IN ILLINOIS]. And the other possibility is that economically they had arrived at a place where they were comfortable. 

Okay, so can you tell me a little bit about this community? If you were to describe it to somebody? What are the-the key characteristics or traits of this community that you would share with them? 

It has a small town [SHORT PAUSE] you know, ambience to it. [SHORT PAUSE] Very small town, although it's no longer a small town. Um, it's approximately 80,000 people now, when I arrived here was about 30,000. So it's grown considerably. Um, [SHORT PAUSE] It had a rural atmosphere to it, even in the city limits Uh, it was very, very, very different from [CITY IN ILLINOIS], which was a booming city with lots of industry factories, and, uh, all kinds of amenities. [COMMUNITY NAME] was lacking, [SHORT PAUSE] uh very much in the amenity department back in the early 70s. [SHORT PAUSE] But that was-that was about it [WIDENS EYES AND NODS]. 

So if you could maybe give me like three words, I guess. Like what would they be?  

Three words for what?  

To describe this community [COMMUNITY NAME]?  

Quiet, [SHORT PAUSE] growing. Uh, [SHORT PAUSE] Um, and affordable. 

Awesome. So how do you think this community has changed throughout your time living here? You said, definitely the population right. But is there anything else that you could kind of share with me? I guess from a different perspective. 

Technology was backwards. [SHORT PAUSE] Very, very backwards. It was [SHORT PAUSE] pretty much the land that time forgot. There was [SHORT PAUSE] two television stations. There was [EMPHASIS] no FM radio. There was [SHORT PAUSE] Uh, poverty, like everywhere. Uh, there there. It was. Uh, [THINKING] It wasn't- tt was a very quiet, rural community. Very, very quiet. Since then, it has [SHORT PAUSE] not just in [COMMUNITY NAME], but in the [SOUTH TEXAS REGION COMMUNITY NAME]. It's, uh, it's become very populous. Uh, amenities are, um that-we're not lacking. It's sort of an area though that [SHORT PAUSE] is kind of left for last. Although it is increasing in [WIDENS EYES] in popularity and population and as a-as a tourist attraction.  Uh, Industry is is booming. I think the area right now is probably one of the leading areas in the United States because we continue to grow. Other areas that are that were considered, uh, Like [THINKING] were considered like, uh, [SHORT PAUSES] Metroplex you could say was like [DIFFERENT SOUTH TEXAS REGION COMMUNITY NAME] and, uh [DIFFERENT COMMUNITY NAME] and those [DIFFERENT COMMUNITY NAME], Texas and those in those communities are shrinking. Shrinking. Uh, not only in population, but, uh [STUTTER] in industry and technology wise. 

Why would you say that [SHORT PAUSE] we're [SHORT PAUSE] kind of always on the rise or we've always-or we're continuing to grow?  

There's no other direction. There was no other direction this place can only grow. It can only grow and because it is economically affordable for [SHORT PAUSE] most people [CONCILIATORY TONE]. It's just the it's a- it's a-it's a booming industry. Uh, [SHORT PAUSE] I believe in the in-the future will be on the map as [NAME OF SOUTH TEXAS REGION COMMUNITY], not [COMMUNITY NAME], [DIFFERENT COMMUNITY NAME], [DIFFERENT COMMUNITY NAME], [DIFFERENT COMMUNITY NAME], it's going to be one giant Metroplex. I believe that.  

Let's hope so. At a time is it's coming. It's it should be here.  

Another mitigating factor would be that its proximity to the border is like, [EMPHASIS] unbelievable. So, either way we go whether we go technologically advancing, yes. But also consumer because, uh, Mexico, uh, retail wise. Mexico keeps us in, in in a [SHORT PAUSE] boom. 

Yeah. And let's hope our relationship stays good. So, kind of building on your answers to the last question I asked you or the question I just asked, What would you say are the strengths of this community? 

Growth [WIDENS EYES]. [SHORT PAUSE] And I believe that its [SHORT PAUSE] growth, and I think that the rest of the nation is taking notice. To this area. I think it's like, Uh, it's, it's not unusual to find something that says, Chicago, New York, Los Angeles, [COMMUNITY NAME], where normally it wouldn't fit in. And now it's something like, it's got potential. great potential. 

Awesome. And kind of contrasting your answer to the question I just asked, What would you say are some of the weaknesses of this community? 

Oh, it's as as [SHORT PAUSE] from what I can see, crime is probably the biggest factor. There is a lot of [SHORT PAUSE] uh, smuggling and there's a lot of potential terrorism here. Uh, not because of the border, or because of Mexico, but because this is a it's easy to get in, into the US from from here, because it's not developed alongside the border. Uh, crime, whether it's organized or disorganized, or random. Crime is pretty high here. I think it would be noted that- [SHORT PAUSE] Uh, unfortunately, it's it rises with alongside the population, you know, [SHORT PAUSE] not as much as the good parts of the valley, but it's still it's still there something to focus on. 

So you would say crime as in corruption or crime as in the overall crime rate?  I think, uh, both it's corrupt in government. It's corrupt in [THINKING] business, but it's also 

[SHORT PAUSE] Uh, very Texas. it's very Texas it's very like uh, there's a lot of guns. There's a lot of there's a lot of uh, [SHORT PAUSE] organized crime, not quite syndicated but still organized. Uh, and there's there's there's uh [SMACKS LIPS] political corruption pretty much in every city, every school district, unfortunately. 

So kind of moving away from questions about [SHORT PAUSE] the strengths and the weaknesses and the description of our community. We're going to move on to like your work. This is going to set up the rest of these questions.  So what do you-or what did you do for work? 

I worked for 37 years with the [NAME OF AGENCY]. I started in [DIFFERENT COMMUNITY NAME], Texas, where I worked for 19 years. And I transferred for family reasons I transferred to Uh, [COMMUNITY NAME] Texas, where there was more day work, work in the daytime. And I worked at the [COMMUNITY NAME] [NAME OF AGENCY] office for 18 years. 

And [SHORT PAUSE] so I'm just for, [SHORT PAUSE] like, I guess writing purposes, I'm going to refer to your job as a job title. I'm going to do mail clerk, is that okay?  

Mail Clerk is fine.  

Okay. So how do you think your connections in this community influenced your work as a mail clerk? 

[LONG PAUSE] Well, it was a good job. [STUTTERS] It was-it was-it was above the economy. Um, [SHORT PAUSE] When I started working for the [NAME OF AGENCY], I started roughly about $10.25 an hour. Um, [SHORT PAUSE] minimum wage at the time was $2.65. So-I was you know, I was pretty-pretty way above the economy. Um, [SHORT PAUSE] The hours were long, and there were [COUGHS] the number of days it was at least six days a week that you would that you would work. Sometimes you would go as, as far as 14 days in a row. Uh, it was formulated that way. But you could [STUTTER] it was possible to work 14 days in a row. Um, [SHORT PAUSE] but it [STUTTER] it, it, it provided well, it had benefits and retirement, all of which I'm presently reaping, but it was also, uh, [SHORT PAUSE] it was also a career. Even though it was blue collar labor, it was still a- it was career oriented. Uh, most people that started working for the [NAME OF AGENCY] continue working for the the, um, duration of their [STUTTER] their, their retirement. I mean, like, up, leading up to retirement. So it was very, very [SHORT PAUSE] Uh, easy to make a living working there. I dropped out of college because one was I never had time to study. The other one was like, Well, I was making the kind of money that most college graduates [LOWERS VOICE] were making. So. [NORMAL VOICE] It was, uh, it was good. It served their will- Served uh. [SHORT PAUSE] My family well, served me well. Uh, was-it opened up a lot of doors. So economically, I could say because of the area and how how, uh, [SHORT PAUSE] it wasn't exactly [THINKING] an expensive place to live. I live very very comfortable because of my income.

Awesome. So [LONG PAUSE] I want to talk a little bit more about your work as a mail clerk, could you tell me [SHORT PAUSE] or kind of lay out to me how you got into this role starting as far back as you want? 

Well, I I, uh, [SHORT PAUSE] I started off in 1983. When I was released, I was discharged from the military. And I took all of the government exams. Most of them unfortunately nobody [CHUCKLES] called me, uh, [SHORT PAUSE] until two years later, when I was called by the by the [NAME OF AGENCY], and I almost missed my chance because, uh, I was seriously contemplating re-enlisting put into the army instead of the Navy. Um,  But, um, Uh, fortunately, I was called. I started off as a seasonal employee [SHORT PAUSE] Uh, the plant manager which is the number two man in the office, he uh [SHORT PAUSE] he noticed that I was a, a good worker. And he approached me and asked me if I wanted to work there permanently. To which I said yes. And, um, [EYES WIDEN] that's how it started. [SHORT PAUSE] Um, but it was it was good. It was a good place to work. 

And you had mentioned earlier that you worked at the [NAME OF AGENCY] for about 34, 37 years,  

37 years.  

Okay. And that's one of the questions- it asks how long you had been working there. But since we already know that, could you just tell me about [SHORT PAUSE] in those 37 years, how a typical workday would look like for you. And if it changed?  

Well, it was different every day, but it was routine. [SHORT PAUSE] It was the same things happening, they just didn't happen in the same way. Our main objective was to distribute mail, and then collect mail, and then, uh, [SHORT PAUSE] distribute mail again, out to the world. So it was it was every day we had that we would receive mail for our office. And then we would distribute mail to our office, they would collect mail, it was worldwide. And we would we would ship that mail out. Um, I met a lot of really good people. I had some pleasant and I've had some unpleasant experiences there. Um. [SHORT PAUSE] Technology took over the [NAME OF AGENCY] somewhere around 1987 88. In our local area, we were still way behind the other, uh, [SHORT PAUSE] offices up north. Pretty much one of the last areas to to gain, uh. technology, but it's in full swing. For me, unfortunately, technology kind of [SHORT PAUSE] kind of took away the [SHORT PAUSE] pride of working for the Postal Service because it was, uh something that was done manually, something that was done with, uh manpower, and technology and machinery. Uh, some took over. But a typical day there was long. And it was [SHORT PAUSE] Uh, it wasn't hard work. But it was constant work. But it wasn't hard work. Uh, I don't [STUTTERS] I although I do for like 12 years. I unloaded trailers with forklifts by hand, uh pushing [SHORT PAUSE] carts and, and postal containers and bins and all kinds of other uh, moveable equipment. We worked with conveyor belts, we worked with, uh [SHORT PAUSE], pallets and we worked in various other, uh, methods, mostly manual labor. It was the best times I've ever had- it kept me very, very strong. Uh, 12 13 14 hours of that per day, keeps you on your toes kept me healthy. Uh. Uh, and again, the the pay was was good. So we always look forward to a hefty nice, pretty paycheck. So 

yeah. And, uh, well, I know that being a mail clerk, you interact with a lot of people both [SHORT PAUSE] at your job, like employee to employee and, um, [SHORT PAUSE] employee to customer, right. So obviously with that you've built a lot of connections in this community. How would you say then, kind of reflecting on all those relationships? Uh, small or big? How would you say that? This impacts the meaning of being a job, [LAUGHS, MISPEAKS] a job clerk, a mail clerk in this community?  

[QUICKLY] Well definitely had its perks. Definitely had perks.  [PROUDLY] I met all kinds of people, beautiful people, all kinds of people. It-everywhere I went, there was somebody that knew me. Uh, we have we still had that small town appeal. And whether it was grocery shopping, whether it was, uh, at church, or whether it was at at, uh in-just out in public people would always approach me, "Are you the man from the post office?" And I go "Yes, I am." Just like, "where do I know you from?" the [NAME OF AGENCY]. And I still get that now even though I've been retired for four years. Uh, people still approach me and say things like "Where do I know you from?" I say, "probably the [NAME OF AGENCY]? Yes, yes, yes, yes. They're enthusiastic and, and, uh happy to have bumped into me. Um, and of course, I appreciate it very, very much. It did shape me as far as my personality is concerned. It did, I saw people who were indigent, who were illiterate. Uh, when they were illiterate, but old, I went out of my way to help them. Because, uh, uh, education back when they were growing up, wasn't as, as important as it is now. [SHORT PAUSE] Uh, when people would struggle with handicaps, I would go out of my way to to help them. Elderly, always, always ready to help the elderly. Uh, [SHORT PAUSE] The most I will do for people who I've felt, should know, without any, was just explain things to them. But no actually do it for them. "You need to fill this out, this is where your name goes, this is where your address goes. This is how you write your address," but not really doing it for them. For the older people that couldn't read, they would come like "I got this letter in the mail. But I don't know what it means." I would read a form much to the ire of my bosses. But I would never I could never, I never had [STUTTERS] the, the, the lack of compassion to the just ignore them. That-it was some some of the things that fundamentally they weren't capable of doing. Uh, [SHORT PAUSE] I met good people, I met some bad people. Uh, I think one of the best things that it taught me was the ability to defuse someone who is angry. [SHORT PAUSE] In fact, I defuse people pretty well, that many of my co workers, would send them to me, "Go talk to that guy over there, he can help you out." And, uh, most of the time, it was just by saying, uh,  something stern, but polite, like, Well, okay, well, first of all, let's get down to the root of the problem. And let's find out what happened. And once they heard that, once they felt, or they saw that you were really [SHORT PAUSE] helping them, it would calm them down [INTERJECTS] didn't take away their anger, but it would still calm them down. So it was easy to, uh, it was easier to assist them. Most of it was lost mail lost packages [INAUDIBLE], or things that they didn't get on time or what have you. But for the most part, that was that was one of the greatest attributes that that it provided for me. 

And, I mean, I feel like people think that mail is like this tiny thing, right? But what kind of aspects of being a mail clerk kind of brought you the most joy or like satisfaction? Or I guess, what is the relationship that you kind of have with being a postal, a postman? 

Well,  what would you say, well fortunately, and unfortunately, I spent more time with my coworkers than I did with my family. There were many events in my family that I, I missed. Because I was at work. We had parties in my own house that I didn't get to go to, because I couldn't get out of work. Uh, but I met some really beautiful people, a lot of really beautiful people, people that I still keep in contact with now. Uh, a lot of us are older. And some of the people that I met when I was younger, have passed on. And some of the people that that uh, were younger, are now looking at it the way I saw, it's like it's almost, I'm almost, you know, reaching my goal, which is retirement. Uh, but but it was, it didn't. I cannot say that it that it didn't shape me it definitely shaped me uh, considerably. You know, as far as who I am and how I am and things I do. I know some of the traits you're born with. But other traits you also develop, you know, as you go along. So it was it was a good thing. And and again, I'm forever grateful because it provided very well, for my family. We're not rich, [SHORT PAUSE] but we're far from poor, we never lacked, and it was a lot easier for me than it was for my my father to be a provider. Because there was there was plenty and there was more than enough and enough is plenty, you know, I didn't have to go strive like my dad did, you know? So [INAUDIBLE] it helped out quite a bit.  

For sure. And contrasting that, what would you say were the biggest challenges that you faced in your work? 

[EYES WIDEN] Oh, God. [SHORT PAUSE] [SLOWLY] I think the worst thing I ever [SHORT PAUSE] faced was [SHORT PAUSE] the people who got [SHORT PAUSE] promoted, but the way they were promoted, not that, not them individually, per se, but [EMPHASIS] how you were promoted, and I just, I could never, I never got them. I just refuse to be that way. I think one of the politics of the postal service were were present every day, um, a lot of my bosses were more like, had more of like a prison warden, attitude than a manager, attitude. As and as my years increased, and my knowledge was greater than theirs, as to how things [EMPHASIS] really work. And my lack of reliance on a computer or paper that said, I had to reach such goals, I was more realistic than that. And [SHORT PAUSE] I think he just consumed the [NAME OF AGENCY]. And the people who are behind it, were because they understood computers more. And I don't think that a computer can can compute [SHORT PAUSE] human-the human aspect of, of the [NAME OF AGENCY], I think it can only base you on numbers. And it can only base you on goals, but it can't achieve those goals for you. It takes [STUTTERS] a,a,a  human aspect is a way bigger part of of the [NAME OF AGENCY]. Than than what is, uh attributed? Yep. 

All right. So kind of to sum up your challenges. It was more so just that, um, [SHORT PAUSE] kinda moving up at the [NAME OF AGENCY] became a [SHORT PAUSE] technological kind of knowledge game, not a- 

Performance?  

Yeah,  

Yeah, you could say that. There was corruption in the Promotion Department. [SHORT PAUSE] A lot of corruption. [SHORT PAUSE] Not criminal, but corrupt. [SHORT PAUSE] obsequent people were the probably the most dangerous. Uh, and there was [SHORT PAUSE] morality and things like that, that, mmmm, [LOOKS TO THE SIDE] you kind of want to shy away from, I refuse to look at them now. Because I'm a different person now. But, uh,  Or, I'm in a different area now. So in my life, so I would, I would rather just wish them well. Just wish them I kind of like, Don't dwell on it anymore. It's like, okay, I accepted it, that I would never be promoted under those kinds of circumstances. So I just. uh, didn't pursue it any longer. 

All right. And I know that we're talking about m-m-mainly your time as a mail clerk, but I also kind of want to touch on the fact that as a retiree, um, you also do other work right? 

It's volunteer work. But it's it's the rewards are more spiritually oriented. Uh, but it's all I don't make a dime of it. But it's something that I that I love to do. My religious convictions are, are there my spiritual convictions are are prevalent to everything that I do. There is no there's no uh, uh, there's no other source. It's all to me. It's all spiritual. But it's also, uh, uh I think that [SHORT PAUSE] characteristically I have changed [SHORT PAUSE] quite a bit. Quite a bit. I'm more in contact with, uh, let's just call it reality. But it's also I'm more in contact with people now than ever before. Even in my my personal personal hobbies, most of them are attributed to helping other people. Um, my spiritual aspect with the church has skyrocketed into areas that I would like unbelievable, I never thought I would see myself in those areas in those fields. But again, it's it shapes me spiritually. Uh. My character characteristics of and, uh, I call it discipleship. And I encourage it with everyone or to everyone that I meet. Know. I encourage them to be followers, I encourage them to be disciples, and I encourage them to continue to grow in faith. And I believe that my life now is more faith oriented than ever before. 

And just for the purposes of, you know, the study, what is it? If you could give it a job title? What is it that you're currently doing right now as a volunteer? 

Well, I work with health ministries, and I visit the the sick, I also visit the dying. And, uh,  I've been able to, uh to learn to, uh, to comfort people, when they're, when they're, uh when their lives are [STUTTERS] at uh, at uh, at uh the most tragic point. You know, of course. It's ridiculous, but it's also very, very, uh, so it's, uh [INAUDIBLE STUTTTER] I do a lot of Chaplain work. But I also do a lot of of of  disciple work. Uh. The [SHORT PAUSE] I'm more accepted in the community now, because the community approaches me, knowing full well that I, you know, I'm I'm I'm , I'm a servant, I serve people, that's what I do. I serve people. So even as I climb up, [SHORT PAUSE] in [SHORT PAUSE] even as I climb up in, say, positions of the church, it's actually climbing down, the higher up I go, the more I have to serve. But it's always that I always have to be beneath everyone, so that I can serve them. So so, uh, that it didn't take long to grasp it. But it's not always easy, because people want to see you as some sort of authority figure. But you're not. You're not you're a disciple, you're below, you're here to serve. You're not here to be served. 

And I'm going to ask you the same questions again, um. I personally know that you've been working there for a majority of the summer at the hospital.  It's been almost about a half a year at the hospital. But I'm in the [CHURCH SCHOOLING PROGRAM] and I'm going on my third year. [PAUSE RECORDING] Okay, I'm resuming the recording, I had to pause. So, I had mentioned earlier that I'm just going to go over these questions. Again, we had just talked about how long he had been working as a I'm just going to use the job title-

Chaplain.

Chaplain, uh, for the hospital, the local hospital here. So, um [SHORT PAUSE] in this half year that you've been working there, what did it or what does a typical work day look like for you?  

I get a manifest of all the people who are in. And I visit them to try to provide some kind of, uh, spiritual relief for them guidance. Some are [SHORT PAUSE] ill [SHORT PAUSE] some are recuperating, some are very ill, some are terminally ill. And some are in uh, in, uh, like a hospice stead state, where the end is is very near. So, uh, we kind of tend to to, uh, spend more time with or longer periods with them than with the people who are, uh, just ill. They all they all need some kind of spiritual guidance. They're all they all have some kind of fear. Um. But [SHORT PAUSE] the larger degree of fear is, you know, terminally ill, uh, in the hospice. 

And, sigh, [THINKING] I mean, it's very different from being a mail clerk, right?  

Oh, totally 100%.  

So what would you say then? And you can kind of create a relationship between the two job titles, but I understand if you can't, what does it mean for you to be a chaplain now in the community? 

Uh, well, it's, it's rewarding, but it's again, it's a reward it's a reward that doesn't have like, uh a monetary value, obviously, no, it doesn't have a monetary value, whatsoever. Even if you were getting paid for it, it doesn't. It doesn't do anything for you economically. But it does, but the riches are in spirituality. And that's it, it's one of the most rewarding things I have ever had the, uh, the the pleasure to do. Um. I believe that [SHORT PAUSE] Uh, God has taught me a great deal of humility, because of it. Uh, I can I can honestly say now that I, I appreciate life, way more than I ever did. And just because like, looking back and say, like, you know, even when you see a, say, a 90 year old person that's going into the afterlife, you know, you you, you look back and say like, you know, 90 years compared to the world, it's just a drop in the bucket. You know, so it's a Um, it-it's a benefit, to benefit. And I think that it's, it's, it's inspired me to want to be a better person. 

Absolutely. So [SHORT PAUSE] I guess that's kind of [SHORT PAUSE] Would you try to say that, that kind of aspect of walking people through something so like, quite literally larger than life? Uh, Bring? I mean, it doesn't bring joy. It's like the scary thing, right, in a sense. But what would you say then, if you could summarize it, in a few words, brings you the most joy or satisfaction doing this job. 

[SHORT PAUSE] I guess just the feeling that in some form or fashion, you're able to provide for a person that is [SHORT PAUSE] a total stranger to you. Some sort of comfort, some sort of comfort. Uh, and and it's just an amazing, uh feeling when someone that you don't know, is is relying on you. You know, uh it's it's very nice. I've met [SHORT PAUSE] some people who were more grateful than people I've known for a long, long time. In just a few short minutes, uh we average a long stay with a person who is ill is probably about eight minutes, 10 minutes at the most. But in those 10 minutes, you can provide them with a comfort [SHORT PAUSE] [STUTTER] and, and, and and a peace of mind. That tranquility that they have never had before. That doesn't work on everybody, but it works on the vast majority of them. And they find a tranquility that they've struggled to [SHORT PAUSE] connect with. So it's it's it's rewarding in more ways than one.

And what would you say are the biggest challenges that you face in your work? 

The the a the biggest challenge is the ability to try and keep composure? Sometimes they're hurting and and and it trans relates to you it's like you feel their pain. You feel their fear, you feel their anger, you feel their, their bewilderment. And it's it's I mean, if you use sense that you can, you can feel yourself being along side them. And,and , uh, when a person does pass, that pain [SHORT PAUSE] automatically transfers to the family. And so now that that that pain didn't subside that confusion doesn't subside the the agony of of of, or the desperation of the situation doesn't go away. In fact, it escalates. Because the person who was passing into the afterlife or he's in the afterlife, he or she's in the afterlife, they're comforted, they're they're, they're no longer suffering in pain, but the pain goes immediately to the family because no matter how [SHORT PAUSE] um, no matter how difficult it is to let go of a person, um or how you prepare, knowing it's the best thing that can happen, um The shock. When they're gone, [SHORT PAUSE] the shock is all yours. It belongs to the family. So it's, it's it. Again, it's rewarding, but it's a very different kind of reward. It's it's, it's satisfying. But it's a different kind of satisfaction. It's it's not something that, uh, uh, I don't know, at the risk of being like arrogant with it. It is not something that you kind of [SHORT PAUSE] it's not something that any just anybody can do. And why I received the privilege of doing such a thing is unbeknownst to me, but I'm glad that it was it was, uh, it, uh, I'm glad that God gave it. 

Absolutely. It is it does. It isn't you being arrogant, it does take very strong person to be able to do that. So, uh, [SHORT PAUSE] we're done with kind of the introductory module of the interview right. Now we're gonna move on now to module two with the specific research questions for the language and history research. So for these first [SHORT PAUSE] I guess, seven, maybe questions. I'm going to read a statement to you. And I'd like you to indicate the extent of your agreement with each one, I'll have you give your answer on a scale of one to four where one is completely disagree. Two is somewhat disagree. Three is somewhat agree. And four is completely agree. And I'd like you to comment on any of the statements and feel free to do so you can answer this. I don't know if these kind of build on your previous questions in terms of like your job titles. But if you feel that you can answer these questions from any perspective, as your work as a mail clerk or your work now as a chaplain. If those kind of roles relate to these questions, answer in the way that you'd like to let me know. So or let the [CHUCKLES] recorder know. So we have context for the answer. So the first phrase is I consider myself to be an American, would you say that you-

Strongly agree, 4 

Okay, and why is that?  

Oh, I'm very proud of my country. I served my country. I don't. I've had the privilege to go to 14 different countries. And I've never seen any nation like the United States. Never. There might there might have been some that were comparable. But it wasn't the US. And as as bad as people think the US is now you have no idea how good we have it. So I strongly agree I love my nation. I love my country. 

And using that same scale, how would you rate the following statement? I consider myself to be a Texan. 

4. I'm proud to be from the state of Texas. I think Texas is, uh, a nation all of its of its own. Technically it is but, um, we still consider ourselves part of the United States. But we have an individuality that that is Texas allows us to be whatever it is that we want to be. And that's a good thing. 

And which of the following statements do you agree with most strongly I'm going to read three to you. I'm American first and Texan second, I am Texan first and American second, or being Texan and American are equally important to me. 

Being Texas and American are equally important to me.  

Why would you say that? 

Because no matter, Texas is just where I was fortunate enough to live. But I think that if you ask anybody about their home state, whether it be Alabama, or Montana, or, or Connecticut, they're all they all have a connection to it that because that's what that's the area that shaped them to whom they are now. So I would say that first and foremost, we are Americans. But first and foremost, I'm a Texan. So I would share the same, the same, uh I, America would not be America without Texas, but Texas would not be Texas without the United States. So. 

Okay. And the next phrase is to be a true Texan, you must know how to speak English, what would you rate this one using the same skill we have been using? 

I somewhat disagree. No matter where you are, it is pertinent and and important to know, more than one language. Even if your other language is American Sign Language, it doesn't matter. It is important to be bilingual. You know, even if it's TRY-lingual, that's T-R-Y it to try to learn different, uh, languages is to me is very, very important. And the statement, I say it boldly, but cautiously that Americans speak very bad English. And Americans speak very bad Spanish. And I think it's very important that that everybody should try to sound or to be eloquent in either language, in any language that you speak. Even if you don't speak, uh, a second language. You should be eloquent in your first language. 

I agree. How about the next statement to be a true Texan, you must know how to speak Spanish. 

I somewhat disagree. Somewhat disagree. Because Spanish is important and vital, especially in the area where where we live now here in the, in the lower end of Texas alongside the border. And I think it's, it's beneficial, very beneficial to learn to speak Spanish, but, uh I I don't think that English is [SHORT PAUSE] the official language of Texas or the United States, but it's definitely the primary language. And you should be able to speak English better than Spanish. Speaking an eloquent Spanish is just beneficial. Okay, but we have visitors in our area, that speak French, we have areas in our, in our, in our state, that rely on German, so it's nice to know, and be it's beneficial. We also have visitors from Canada, that speak French. So if you could at least learn to say, you know, "Merci beaucoup" or to be polite, you know, in a different language is good. 

So, kind of to sum up what you said [SHORT PAUSE]: English you'd say is the primary language of this kind of nation, and learning other languages is beneficial to you. It's not necessarily like,uh, an identity kind of thing. It's just a skill kind of thing for you.  

Well, I think the more languages you are acquainted with, or you know that you are talented with, uh, the better person or the more important person you become, because you're you have one of the greatest life skills, uh, available, which is communication. 

So, the next phrase is in my community, you can do everything you want and get everything you need even when you don't speak English. 

I have to agree [SHORT PAUSE] I have to agree. Even though the primary language here is English it's, it is beneficial to know Spanish but it so it's also pretty much required, you know, and the more fluent that you are in, uh, Spanish, the better, the better that you are not just to serve in your community, but to communicate with other people. For us, it's vitally important because, um, we have relatives that don't speak English, or don't communicate well in English. So it's, it's important to be able to communicate with them in the language that they're suited with, which is more than likely Spanish. 

And finally, "in my community, life has been pretty stable over the last 40 years, things have not changed much." 

I somewhat disagree. Things in this area are no-traditionally, I think we've lost a lot of tradition. Uh, one of the things that painstakins me a lot is the people who want to forget their roots. "I'm an American, I'm not a Mexican," but what's wrong with being Mexican American? I don't find any discrepancies whatsoever. My roots are from Mexico. My history is from Mexico, this [REFERRING TO THE COMMUNITY]  was Mexico at one point, my family goes back many generations as you know, in this in, even in this area, when it was Mexico, so, uh, I don't see anything, uh, uh [SHORT PAUSE] that I think I think it's very important to keep in contact with your culture, uh. Culture is a big important factor in people's lives. Uh. The little things that give you, uh [SHORT PAUSE] cultural value, like say, Quinceañeras, bailes, music, entertainment, uh, [EMPHASIS] food, reasons to gather you know, and celebrations that we that we have in our culture. Uh,[SHORT PAUSE] I don't oppose sweet sixteens but I don't approve of them. I think quinceañeras are more cultural, we can identify with a quinceañera-we really can't identify with the sweet 16 It doesn't make any cultural sense to me. Uh, [SHORT PAUSE] foodwise- we have some of the most [EMPHASIS] delicious food on earth. You know, we cook with a spirit of[SHORT PAUSE] being [EMPHASIS] mexicano. It's very important to be mexicano and to be to relate to it. So most of our, our diet and our traditions are, are evident just by who we are. Uh. language wise, I believe we should say words that are in Spanish in Spanish, you know, and, and don't, uh, don't [SHORT PAUSE] change the value of the word because you pronounce it different. For for example, uh for a-good example. A little town like San Juan is [PRONOUNCES NAME WITH MEXICAN ACCENT] San Juan. It's not [PRONOUNCES NAME WITH AMERICAN ACCENT]San Juan. It's not San Juan. It's [PRONOUNCES NAME WITH MEXICAN ACCENT] San Juan. Okay. My last name is [PRONOUNCES LAST NAME WITH MEXICAN ACCENT]. It's not [PRONOUNCES LAST NAME WITH AMERICAN ACCENT]. Okay. [PRNOUNCES NAME WITH MEXICAN ACCENT] Sandoval is Sandoval not [PRONOUNCES NAME WITH AMERICAN ACCENT] Sandoval. [PRONOUNCES NAME WITH MEXICAN ACCENT] Davila is Davila not [PRONOUNCES NAME WITH AMERICAN ACCENT] Davila. Okay. It's, I think those kinds of traditions, we should [SHORT PAUSE] we should place more emphasis on and embrace them as as they are, as they were, as they should be. And that not sort of, uh, uh, for lack of a better term, Americanize them, uh like like anglicize them, we we have a tradition we have, we have a culture and I think the preservation of our culture is very important. 

Now I'd like to hear more about the community itself. What are some of the things that have changed in this community during the last few decades?  

[RAISES BROW] Oh, God, everything. Everything has changed. Uh, while it still, for the most part, been able to maintain that little small town feel. Um. Like I said, when I arrived here was about 30,000 people in [COMMUNITY NAME], and everybody knew everybody, you know, and now, it's roughly about 85,000 people. So that's 50,000 people more. And I think that census is incorrect. But that's a political thing. Uh. [SHORT PAUSE] It could never stay the same. Technology has to come in and has come in and pretty much has dominated,uh, the growth. Okay, uh. Very, very, uh. as we as we became more populated, the demands were more, um, necessary. Um. We were able to think, and memorize things much better back in the day. But now because of technology, we, have uh, everybody has a phone. Everybody has more than one TV, everybody has more than one vehicle. Everybody has, uh, uh, a a household income, a two household, two income household, the vast majority of us are like that. We're more career oriented, things like that. So so a lot of the b[SHORT PAUSE] a lot of the things that were not present in the 70s, like, uh traditional home values, per se, for and again, for lack of a better term, they're kind of they kind of dissipated along the way, where education was not something that was pushed by by my parents generation. Uh, I know that we were pushed to graduate from high school, which was like a major accomplishment. And it's now like a stepping stone. Uh, more, we're geared more towards educating at the university levels at the college levels. Uh. More than more than ever before, uh. which is a good thing, which is a good thing. But we also have to remember that that, uh there's nothing wrong with being a plumber, there's nothing wrong with being a mechanic. There's nothing wrong with being  a-working, produce or working. I mean, it's they all serve purposes. But it's also, uh, beneficial to be an engineer, to be a lawyer to be a doctor to be a, uh, an accountant. You know, of course, almost everything ties in, everything ties in, there's way more of that now than ever before than ever before. I remember, even,uh, at the at the time that we were in high school, in our little town of [COMMUNITY NAME] that 30,000 people to my knowledge, there was only a handful of beauty salons. You know, beauty salons, my sister [SISTER'S NAME] works as, as a beauty salon person, whatever they called- a cosmetologist, you know, and then all of a sudden they're a dime a dozen. They're everywhere. You know, like Yeah, it's good. It's good. Uh, but there's, I mean, you have to work really, really, really hard. Not that the other jobs don't require hard works it is very different work. You work there's more mind work than there is physical work, you know, but as far as the area's concerned we have all kinds of amenities now that were unheard of, uh or unthought of, you know, I was I was fortunate enough to to witness the change from black and white TV to color TV. From color TV to these giant screen TVs. I was fortunate enough to see the, uh  black and white pictures go to colored pictures to go to Polaroids to go to cameras on your phone that take much sharper images than than the cameras that we had back then. So very fortunate to see the telephone system is skyrocket, skyrocket cable TV versus UHS and VHS. We have FM radio here now, I still don't like it. Uh, But it's still it's, it's something that we never, I like as a kid, as a 13 year old teenager, FM radio was the thing. In [CITY IN ILLINOIS] we didn't listen to am radio, you know, when we came over here was all a ham radio, which is, uh a very different circuit. So, so it's it was the modulation was different. And so the sound was different. And it wasn't clear and it was, if you went under an overpass it would cut out because it was amplified. Okay, and now it's frequency modulated so so all of that is going into, took it to a different area. But even that has changed, because now it's satellite satellite has a lot to do with it. Or what we know now is Bluetooth, all that kind of stuff. Well not Bluetooth, but uh what do you call like Spotify?  

Oh, streaming,  

Streaming, streaming. All of that is, is the new era. So like, we're not [SHORT PAUSE] far behind anymore. We're we in fact, we're on pace. We're, um, we're definitely on pace [PURSES LIPS] with modern technology. So as far as that is concerned, like the old the old [COMMNITY NAME] versus the new [COMMUNITY NAME]? Well, it we're better off now because of the the availabilities of all these things here. But the quiet simple life is something that we all [SHORT PAUSE] kind of wish we could go back to. And then once you get a glimpse, or is it like, oh, man, this is so peaceful, so tranquil, so serene, and then come Monday, we're back into the Madhouse of technology, modernization. 

Would you say overall, uh, this is a give me a good community to live in?  

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Despite all the comments that I made about, about the corruption and all that stuff, there's good wholesome values here, that still outweighs any corruption that could possibly be here. Uh. Good, wholesome values. Uh-I don't see them as prevalent in in in, uh northern states. I [SHORT PAUSE] In fact, the [NAME OF SOUTH TEXAS REGION COMMUNITY] is something very unique in its own sense. Because once you leave the[NAME OF SOUTH TEXAS REGION COMMUNITY] things are changed. It's completely different. Completely different. This is an area that's very, uhm still has a lot of tradition, you know, a considerable amount of tradition. And that's because it's multicultural, and is predominantly Mexican. You know, even though we're becoming more Americanized, we can't escape or we-and I don't think we ever will-escape our Mexican roots or Mexican traditions you know, which is prevalent in our entertainment industry, where the majority the vast majority always goes back to Spanish to Mexico. Pretty much.

[INAUDIBLE] Okay. What is or is or- I mean? Sorry, what was or is the best part about being a kid or young person in this community? 

Oh, the camaraderie that I've developed throughout the years I [SHORT PAUSE] I didn't fit in when I when I got here. I was a big city kid. I was into rock music. And that wasn't available here. Uh. I had to learn about all of them musicians and music, uh, through magazines and oftentimes had to special order, uh, albums or records that I wanted because they weren't available here. Um, so, a lot of that came in, uh. I wore tennis shoes. They wore, people here wore boots. I wore pants, people here wore jeans. I wore T shirts people here wore shirts. It's kind of odd. Because now I wear shoes and I wear, uh, pants I wear jeans and I wear T shirts more than than than anything but now I wear shoes, pants and shirts and [SHORT PAUSE] As far as like, music wise, I'm more culturally diverse now- still struggle in this area, because nothing is available B but streaming sure helps, um. So, growing up here, I would say the here once you have a friend that's a friend for life, same to be said about an enemy. Once you dislike a person here, you pretty much dislike him for for life. Unfortunately, you know, but that doesn't mean you don't know them. That just means you don't like them. You know, it's a big difference, uh. It was more serene. It was quieter, it was there was- we were able to escape the city by just going two or three miles past the city limit. You know, now you have to go 20 30 miles, 40 50 miles, if you really want it quiet in areas that will you don't, you don't know anyone. You know, so. So, uh, a lot of those things have changed. But as far as growing up here, as far as growing up here, I think that I was able to maintain good family values, good family values, good family traditions, good family upbringings. Uh, I think that I've raised my children well. I am I was I wasn't a strict parents were strict as, as my parents were very, very liberal in that area. But still, I I, um, I'm glad to see that I was able to give my children good home values, that I think in the bigger cities, they're kind of they they kind of dissipate a lot more than this area here. 

I know we kind of touched on it earlier. But do you feel that the traditional way of life in this community is going away? 

I don't think it'll ever go away completely. I think that because of our roots, and our ties, uh. it would maintain a, uh, a good[SHORT PAUSE] percentage of our values. I think, uh, uh, [SHORT PAUSE] spiritually, I think that that is almost an impossibility. Although we are getting more modern religions and what have you, uh, things of that nature. But no, I don't I don't foresee us going into a, uh, a complete different way of life. No, I don't think so. Not at all. 

So kind of moving away from talking about the community and your identity. We're going to talk a little bit more about some subjects. I want you to be-random subjects-I want you to be as [SHORT PAUSE] natural as possible in your responses with-that means like your emotion, all of that. Okay? So what is your favorite sports team? 

Ah! [GRINS] The Chicago Cubs, the Chicago Cubs. This is what I was raised on. Uh. For anyone who might know, the movie, The Sandlot. And, uh. Smalls was the was the oddball- well I was the oddball I was Smalls, but we loved baseball. And we played in the empty lots, the sand lots. We played all those in those kinds of things. And our team was the Chicago Cubs. And I was never able to let go. I love the Dallas Cowboys, but no other sport. And I love love, love the San Antonio Spurs, but nobody could take the Chicago Cubs. 

How have they been doing lately? 

I don't want to talk about it [LOOKS DOWN AND LAUGHS] 

Well, I mean, they were they were on fire a few years ago. So kind of moving on from your favorite sports teams. What, or did you have to do chores when you were younger or now? 

[FAST] Well, yeah, yeah, we definitely had to do. Yeah, absolutely [RAISES BROWS, NODS]. There was no getting out of it. We've my parents were like, home first. You know, I think it was in my rebellious teens like 16, 17, 18, but it didn't really last long because I you know, I left for the military but no, we we had to cut our own grass. We had to throw out the trash. We had to clean our rooms we had to we had to wash the cars. We had to do all that kind of stuff. It was it was part of, uh, it was like the unwritten rule that you are obligated to do so.  

And what was your worst chore? 

The worst chore? I think the worst chore was [THINKING]   Uhhh, think the worst chore was probably- probably cleaning the house. I didn't really care for cleaning the house too much.  

What specifically about cleaning the house did you not like? 

It was indoors. I'm an outdoor person. 

Okay, and what was the chore that you didn't mind doing so much? 

Uhhh. The chore I didn't mind doing so much was probably cutting the grass. 

[SHORT PAUSE] And did you ever get caught pretending to do a chore but not really doing it?

[SCOFFS] Absolutely. I was a kid.  

What chore? 

Huh? 

What chore was it usually?

Uh. Probably cleaning my room. Uh probably taking out the trash. Uh things like that, you know?

And when you got caught? What happened?  

Oh, my dad was not, my dad was not. My dad believed in corporal punishment. He believed in corporal punishment. 

Lord Almighty. Okay, so some people think that it's hard for boys and girls to be friends. What do you think?  

Oh, that's ludicrous. Ludicrous. I have as many girl friends as I or female friends as I d, uh, male friends. You don't treat them the same way. You don't say thing. There's certain things you don't say to to a girl woman lady that you can to a man. Men are much easier to get along with. Uh. I like rugged people which you can be rugged with with women. You know, uh, there's there's you can't you can't- it is disrespectful. But But, uh. I found, uh. Women coworkers were easier to talk to, uh professional wise than men. Because men always had a macho attitude towards everything. And while I believe that, uh, being a "man" man is very important. Extremely important. "A man is a man, act like a man" Uh, being able to to to [SHORT PAUSE] coexist with women is very important. They're more gentle, they're more, they're more, uh, they're home more homey, more homey, more pleasant. Men can be rough men can be mean, [QUICKLY] women can be mean too, women can be mean too. Don't get me wrong. Some of the two biggest bullies I know of were women. Uh. But, but, uh. women for the most part are very pleasant. And men for the most part are very, I think men are really actually more genuine, because that's who they are. That's who they are. And women. You can't identify everything with a woman that you can with a man. Men, for instance, are my brother in law's I love being around them because it gives me an opportunity to act silly to act stupid, you know, and with my sister in laws or my you know, uh, women, relatives, you can't you don't have that luxury, you you have to be you have to behave, you have to be honorable, respectable, minded, you know, you have you have to be of of, of um have [SHORT PAUSE] good values with them. And with men, you you can you can be more earthly, more worldly more that we live in. So, but but no, I think it is very important to be able to, to establish a rapport with both men and women. 

For sure, and did you ever tell a story about another person thinking the other person was not near you, but then turned around and saw that that person was standing right next to you? 

[LAUGHS] Of course.  

And what can you tell me about that? What happened? 

Well it would happen a lot at work. Where [SHORT PAUSE] people that tend to shrug work off, you know, are people that tend to think that they do better than you and you know, like, I think the most the worst experience was, uh, this lady that I worked with, she was my boss at [DIFFERENT SOUTH TEXAS REGION COMMUNITY NAME] state bank. I worked in the vault, and she was not a very friendly person. [SHORT PAUSE] And I mouthed off one time. Not directly at her, but I mouthed off one time saying these really bad things about her in Spanish. Thinking that she didn't, she couldn't hear me or know me. And then I, I saw her one time speaking to a customer from Mexico with the most fluent Spanish I had ever seen an Anglo lady speak. And then after the conversation was over, she told me, "and yes, I understood every single word you said about me." And I felt like oh, my God [PUTS HEAD IN HANDS] [CHUCKLES] But yeah, that was the worst experience I had with. 

Oh, my gosh, and- oh, I know you're not gonna like this one. A lot of people think of the 1990s as the golden decade of pop music. Do you agree?  

[SCOFFS] Strongly disagree. That's when I just started hating music. 

[LAUGHS] 

Like, oh, God, like no, no, no, nothing, nothing, nothing could ever match the 60s and 70s. Nothing. Nothing that even comes close. I think music started to become more of a noise, uh, rock wise. In 1985 on or about. In fact, I stopped listening to rock music altogether, and listen more to progressive and alternative jazz. Uh. Because it was it was more musically inclined, they showed off their talents. And in the 1980s, I saw them- uh. You didn't have to have talent, you just have to have a good body. And you had to have the, the, the, the will, to show off your body. And that made you a good performer. It's like you had no musical skill, you can't sing. You can't play, you can't do anything. You know, but you can't even dance or you can do strip, you know. So- uh. that made you a good musician. Now with the 90s, where vulgar words, were starting to be more acceptable. Uh. The more you curse, the better performer you are. And that's simply not true. In my day, you have one or two songs that said a curse word. And they were automatically great songs. But I learned it from way back then. That no, it's not a good song. It's pretty much pretty lousy songs. You know, it's like, like you didn't really, you didn't have to say that. You know, one word, one song, in particular "Hair of the Dog" -horrible song, horrible song, but if you listen to the lyrics, it's over and over and over a curse word. So everybodys like, "ah, that's a great song. That's a great song." No, it's not. It's a lousy song. You liked it because it said something that you weren't that you weren't supposed to say or hear. So like, was it more descriptive? Was it more liberal? Most definitely. But no. The 90s was pretty much a curse of music. 

Alright, so that was the last question. But there's a, um, final module. You don't have to. Um. This is voluntary. You don't have to do this. But I just want to thank you first, for your answers. I really appreciate that you, uh, took the time to talk with me. If you have time. This is my last request. One of the overarching research questions through the home in Texas program is about linguistic changes in Texas. As a part of this project, a linguistic researcher is asking that interview participants read a brief passage, we should only take a couple of minutes. It's a made up story about life in Texas that was created in the 80s and since then, linguistic researchers have recorded a few 100 Texans reading it. They use these recordings as samples of people standard way of speaking as they try to track our speech in Texas varies and changes over time. Are you willing to read a brief passage out loud?  

Sure. 

Okay, I'm just gonna ask that you read this as naturally as possible. [HANDS OVER INTERVIEW GUIDE] So here you go. [INTERVIEWEE FLIPS TO PAGE] 

Reading passage: Growing Up in Texas.  I lived in Texas all my life. I was born in [SLOWLY] Titus County. And when I was five, we moved to a farm near The White House, which was southeast of Tyler. I like growing up in the country. When my chores were done, I'd ride my horse, climb trees, or hike down [BREAK IN SPEECH] to the creek to fish or swim. One time we tied a rope to a limb of a cypress tree, and we'd swing out wide over the swimming hole and drop into the water. I pretend to be Tarzan swinging on a vine. In the spring, I'd fly kites, on the summer nights we'd watch fireflies but we call them lightning bugs. Once in a while we had fights with corn cobs or pine cones. In the winter, we'd build a fire in a fireplace and pop popcorn and roast peanuts and pecans. I guess [QUICK PAUSE] I was a Livewire. When I was 19 I went to work in Dallas at a Firestone Tire store. I didn't like city life. And for a long time, I'd go home every chance I got. Mama would always cook [BRIEF PAUSE] my favorite foods fried okra. hoppin john, that's rice and black eyed peas, and pecan pie. We had lots of good times, but going home is now not the same now. After daddy died, Mama sold the farm and moved to Tyler. I'd rather be living on a farm right now instead of here in the city. But my wife and kids don't understand me. When I gripe about city life and talk about moving to the country. My oldest child says Daddy, that's crazy. I'd just die if I had to live on a farm. I almost cried the first time she said that. I know Texas is changing. But I tried to make sure we don't lose touch with our our roots. While we may live in the in a city, I want my kids to have a good feeling for the land. Have a sense of place and take pride in being Texan. If they lose their ties to the land. The price of progress is too high. 

All right. So thank you again for contributing your voice to the collection. And thank you so much for taking the time to share your experiences with me. If you don't have any other questions or comments or concerns, I'll go ahead and stop the recording now. Do you have any questions? 

No. 

Okay.