Annotations for Topic: Change

Uh, well, today it has changed drastically. Uh, today's standards, I would say, uh, it would be a really nice place to move to because, uh, we don't have a real high crime rate. We don't have a lot of, uh, gang activity in the school. There's a little, but, uh, our police force stay on top of it. And the people in this town are just, um, they're getting a little bits because we're so overcrowded now that you don't know some of the people around you, your neighbors. But all of the neighbors that have moved in around us that are from out of town have been been great people. I mean, they're, you know, nobody, nobody that, uh, you know, wanted to shoot or anything, or have bad words with. But, you know, it's, it is just a, it's a laid back feeling and it still has that small town feel at sometimes.

I stayed out. When I graduated high school, I thought to myself, man, I will, I'm, I want to get out this one horse town. At that time, there was one red light in the middle of town, and I just thought, I, I want to get out of this one horse town, get to a big city, and just not ever come back. I moved, I lived in [[]] for a little while. I lived in [[]] [[]]. I lived in West [[]]. Uh, and then I moved back to [[]] and . I had a bullet come through my apartment one night from three apartments down. And that kind of changed my mind that I need to get back to the country, , if somebody's going to shoot me. I wanted to know who it is, , and know that I probably deserved it, , but, but it is just, uh, you know, it's, it's home, you know. Um, I used to live out in the country and we moved into town,

Absolutely. That's great. And I've heard very similar sentiments from a lot of people. So being here for a while and even comparing it to some other places you lived, like, how would you say the community has changed? You spoke a little bit about that, how much it's changed recently, especially?

And as a parent, that's what you want for your kids. You want your kids to have a better life and be smarter than you are. My son is, he's surpassed me long time ago. And, uh, I've got two boys, two girls, and boy, the boys were a lot easier them girls. Like, oh, I still want to beat my head against the wall with my 20-year-old that lives here, . But no, it's, it's, uh, you know, things are just, it is just a, you know, it's, it has changed. I mean, we had a population when I was in school, high school, uh, we had, um, around 5,000 people. And I'd say now we probably got, what do you think, honey? About 20,000? Huh? More than that. More than that, yeah. We got over probably, probably closer to 30,000 people in our community. And reason being, I think is the fact that it is a rural

and I got another brother that lives four houses down and across the street. And we thought it was cool that all of us get back on the same street. We had a farm that we lived on these kids and grew up on, and we kind of got scattered into the winds. And then, uh, three of us got back together. We lost one brother and a plane crashed. But, uh, we all stayed connected with each other, and we were able to do that. And I don't know of any other, you know, it's, it is, I meet people if I'm rambling, I'm sorry. But, uh, I meet people in my walkthrough life and, you know, I just, you know, they'll get to be talking about their best friend and I'll say, well, how long have you known your best friend? Oh man, I've known my best friend [[]] years. Oh, well, cool. I said, well, how long have you known your best friend? Let's see, I'm 68.

you know, once a month, twice a month, sometimes, sometimes it's six months. But it's people I grew up with, and I know, and there's people I love. And that's the thing with this, when we were, I was in high school, man, we didn't, you know, you know, seniors pick on freshmen, you know, that's just when we were seniors, we didn't pick on freshmen, man, we all hung out. I could drink when I was 18, and I'm still in high school. And I made some money off the freshman because they go, then will you go buy us some beer? ? Yeah, sure, man. How much does it cost? Well, it's about $8 a case, and I'm getting it for $5 a case. pays for my case. But then, and you know, that's, you know, that's like cheapest I, I've ever bought gas, uh, with 17 cents a gallon. And, uh, it's, you know, it ain't that now.

And, uh, it is, it is just, but, but the, the love of the people that I grew up with, uh, it's probably been the most amazing and best thing that I've ever had about this town. And like I said, we've got, and we, you know, the, the, and one of the bad things about that is when you get to be my age, sometimes you don't see 'em until you go to their funeral. And that's hard on the soul, but it, it, it keeps you in touch too, I think with your creator that it marks the time that you only got so much time and you better make the best of it, you know? And it don't matter what situation is. If you're in a bad situation, man, turn to your friends and get out of it, you know, unless they're the ones that are causing you a bad situation and you just get away from them.

But, uh, you know, like I say, it, it is, it is. There's not anything that's really terrible other than, like I say, sometimes the infrastructure and just the overpopulation, and you look at it. But, you know, I'm a realist too, and I know that it's not going to get smaller. It's going to get bigger every year. You know, there, there used to be a lot of country, uh, that you could drive back roads and drink beer and never see anybody for hours. And now it's, I mean, it's a solid city from [[]]. There's a little bit of country, and there's a little bit of country between here and [[]]. And from [[]] to [[]] is almost solid cities. And same way going north and south, you know, there's, it is just little stretches of country and just, you know, and it's just going to grow. It's just gonna get bigger and bigger and more stores, more houses, and, you know, I guess it's progress, but, you know, old guys like me is sometimes it's too much progress. .

that I have learned growing up in this town is take care of your village. You know, reach out there. I, I can't comprehend a guy that runs out on his kids, or a woman that runs out on their kids or, and you know, get, get hooked on drugs and shit and just not take care of their kids. And I mean, you know, I ain't no angel. I've been down that road too, but I grew out of it. Said, that's it, man. I can't accomplish the things in life I want if I keep this going. I was 26, I decided it was time for me to dry out and quit being stupid. . Well, I don't know. I, I, my, my wife will disagree with you on that. I still do some stupid shit. . Pardon my French, other.

how you, you reach out to people like that. And I said, it's real easy. You do what's right. You know. And like I say, that's just part of the values that I grew up with. I had two great amazing parents that instilled that in me and my brothers. I mean, they was four of us and they, nobody went to jail, you know, we knew better, you know, and not a bad, not a bad one in the bunch. We made our mistakes and we, I mean, you know, because they, they might have, I, I spent the night in a jail cell a couple of times, but I never was arrested. It was because I was best friend with the chief of police's son . And so it was, Hey, you get in a car, I'm gonna take you to a bed. And, and he'd take me down to jail and we'd drink coffee and eat donuts. It happened twice. And one year he said, don't, don't make me pull you over again. If I do, uh, there will be a record. And I didn't, uh, you know, it's okay, I'll straighten up. I'll quit drinking , try it.

I would say we're a border country. We're a border state, and we got Mexico to the south of us. I know that, uh, there's a lot of people that don't speak Spanish in this state, but I think that it ought to be kind of mandatory in our school because it's like kids in Italy, they can speak Spanish, German, French, you know, they know four, they know four languages, you know? And it, you know, I, it makes me feel like we grew up stupid, you know, because you run in, you know, these, these people can speak four different languages and there's a lot of similarities in there, but between them, but, uh, you know, I like I say, I do, I struggle with English.

Perfect. And then for our last number rating question, please answer on a one to four. In my community life has been pretty stable over the past 40 years. Things haven't changed much

I I would, uh, I would say that is a number one. 'cause it has changed tremendously. I mean, and you know, it's basically just the, the amount of people and that come into the community. And it's not just this community, it's every community around. I mean, there's, you know, it is, it is just growing and growing and growing. And I, you know, I'm, like I say at my age, I hope that I, I would not want to if they had a pill where you could, I could live another a hundred years

Excellent. So, uh, now we can talk, let's talk a little bit more about the community. So, um, what are, you've talked a little bit about this in the last question, but what do you think are some of the change things that have changed this in this community over the past few decades?

and playmates, besides my brothers, was, there was three little black kids that lived about a half a mile down the road from us. And my dad was a, he, he was a carpenter, but he was a mechanic, electrician, plumber. He could do it all, jack of all trades. And he always made sure that we either had bicycles or mini bikes, or he even bought us a car one time to make a dune buggy out of just, you know, drive around the farm on. And he would let me, him and mama would let me take my mini bike and drive to these three little boys' house. And we play, their mom and dad lived in a barn. You could see daylight through the cracks. And these people were real proud. And I grew up with these kids,

they had some racists. You know, all you black people just out screw me and all you black people outcr me. And it's the things that I grew up with. And that, like I say, that's part of the values that my mom and dad instilled in us, is you don't be prejudiced. You know, you judge people by their merit about what they can do and what they have done. And, you know, not just cause of, uh, their religion, race, religion or color. You don't do that. You know? And it's like I say, it was, that's one of the greatest things, uh, I think in my childhood was the parents. I had instilled these values in me, and I still got 'em now. Yeah. Uh, I, you know, and it's, it is true with every culture. There are bad apples in every bunch, but as a whole, man, people are people, you know? And it don't matter, you know, to me there are a lot of people. It does.

Also. Pretty good one then. Uh, thank you for your answers and if you have a little bit of time, I'd uh, I have one last request. One of the overarching research questions through this Home to Texas program is about linguistic changes in Texas. As a part of this project, a linguistic research is asking that interview participants read a brief passage about life in Texas. It's a short made up story that was created in the [[]]80s and since then, linguistic researchers have recorded a couple hundred Texans reading it over the past few decades. They use these recordings as samples of people's standard way of speaking and they try to track how speech and change has varied and changed over time. Would you be willing to just read this brief passage out loud? Sure. Perfect. Thank you. Uh, the passage is right here. Just please read it out.

I didn't like city life and for a long time I'd go home every chance I got. Mama would always cook my favorite food. Fried oak hopping, John, that's rice and black-eyed peas and pecan pie. We had lots of good times, but going home is not the same. Now. After dad died, mama sold the farm, moved to Tyler. I'd rather be living on a farm right now instead of here in the city. But my wife and kids don't understand me. When I gripe about city life and talk about moving to the country, my oldest child says, daddy, that's crazy. I'll just die if I had to live on a farm. I almost cried the first time she said that. I know Texas is changing, but I try to make sure we don't lose touch with our roots. While we may live in a city, I want my kids to have a good feed feeling for the land, have a sense of place, take pride in being Texans, and if they lose our ties to the land, the price of progress is too high.

[[...]] . Mm-hmm. Oh, . Well, uh, we're used to be known as a city of apartments because we overbuilt on apartments and, uh, didn't develop quite enough individual housing. Um, I'm not sure. We're much more of an apartment complex now than we were then. I, I don't think it's got any worse. Um, but you don't want too many apartments. They don't exactly pay, pay their way in a city. Um, but it's a, basically a suburban community of [[...]] and [[...]] .

Yeah. No, campus has been, I know you're, you're a UT Lum, but campus has been a pretty crazy with all the, uh, the sports teams as of late. So I'd say the mood at UT is pretty high right now.

How do you think that your community has changed throughout your time living here?

Well, it's got more cosmopolitan. We have a lot more restaurants than we used to have, and a greater, much greater variety. You can certainly eat better now than you could when I came here in 66 in terms of restaurants. Um, and there's more entertainment. Uh, the, uh, uh, the [[...]] baseball team came then

Baseball. Yeah, that's true. That's right. It was quite an event. Um, and of course, the [[...]] got a couple of professional football teams, two at one, one time, and only one now. Um, and then they've since, uh, gotten, uh, established more things around the ballpark. Mm-hmm

Uh, so there's more, um, oh, and six flags on Texas moved in after I got here, I think. So there's more, um, entertainment is one of the more restaurants and more cosmopolitan atmosphere than we used to have, certainly. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Well, the political leadership is traditionally pre-con conservative, but also, and I'm not conservative, but it's also been relatively sane compared to what you see in some, some conservatives today who I don't regard as conservative, all of us, but reactionary. Um, and we don't have too many of the, of the book burners or the, uh, that lot, you know. Um, there's some around, we defeated one for the school board recently, but you're, you're onto 'em. You can spot 'em. Uh, so we've, and the, the county government in Tarrant County, you know, it was led by Republicans for a long time, but they were moderate Republicans. Uh, the latest county judge is not so moderate, and he's having a difficult time running the county. Mm-hmm. However,

Um, but, you know, that doesn't make a lot of difference in most people's daily lives. Mm-hmm. Uh, and the, uh, city is still governed by, um, moderate Republic. So, and same as [[...]] .

You know, our our mayor recently switched. He was a, got elected as a Democrat, but switched to a Republican while in

Office. Yeah. That did not please. A lot of people in [[...]] did. And I don't think you'll serve another term, but, uh, yeah. Such things happen. But that's the, the political scene. Uh, culturally, I don't know that we're any different from any other city, really. Mm-hmm.

Well, um, I used to be deeply involved in the community. Actually. I, um, I was elected the, uh, democratic Precinct chairman and, and as well as the election judge in, uh, 1978. And I served for, um, what would it be, from 1978 to 2020 or whatever. That's 42 years. Um, as precinct chairman in the Democratic Party, an election judge overall. Uh, and I had a Republican alternate running the election, and we always got along. Uh, so I was deeply involved in the political community mm-hmm. But even before 78, as soon as I got here, uh, I went to, um, I was politically involved in county conventions and such mm-hmm

So for a while, uh, in the eighties, I was, uh, chairman of the, um, Senate State Senate District Democratic Party. Um, when you go from the precinct that night, on election day, well, it used to be they've done away with precincts. Now, uh, you elected people to the, um, either to the county convention or to the C senate dis dis district convention in rural counties. It's just a county convention. They're all in one senate district. But here we have senate districts that go all over the place. So mine covered, uh, much of [[...]] and much of Southern [[...]] . And I chaired that in the 1980s. And I always had Jim Wright speaking and Martin Frost, I got to know these guys. Governors came up. They were democrats back then, except for, well, bill Clements wasn't, but the others were.

Uh, so I got to know state leaders too. I was also involved in the community, um, well, in Texas, really, as well as the community in the labor movement. You know, I'm writing a book on labor, um mm-hmm. But I did more than that. I, um, in 66, I got together with a head librarian at UTA, just the same semester. I arrived there. And, um, I put it to them that we ought to create a labor archives in the library, collect labor records, give the library some distinction. Mm-hmm. And he agreed with that. Uh, most all libraries have an archives of some kind. And, uh, of course you gotta build it around something. So we originally built it around labor. There was no other labor archives in the state. Now, [[...]] had some labor records, but they weren't collecting them, and they weren't doing anything with them Really. Mm-hmm. But although they preserved them,

Ruth Allen did that. She was an economics professor at UT Austin, none in the twenties and thirties. And I got to know her in her old age, and she gave some of her later records to us, . Um, So I went around the state frequently with, sometimes with a couple other professors, and we collected, uh, we went into a town and we would collect the minutes of meetings of central labor councils, local unions, um, regional offices. Um, historian from [[...]] said, we had the only regional collection of the, uh, uh, meat cutters union. And, um, [[...]] has the national collection. They didn't have, they don't have any regional collections. So they came down here to research some of our records. Mm-hmm. [[...]] was the center of, uh, a multi-state regional office for the meat cutters union. They've since amalgamated with the, with the clo? No, with the, uh,

what's the other one? Um hmm. Um, Well, the Butcher Workman, uh, I don't know, a couple of 'em merged. A lot of unions have merged, actually. Uh, anyway, um, we, and we have lots of local union records and central labor council meetings, uh, records minutes. Their meetings of Central Labor Council is a meeting, usually monthly countywide of all the unions in that county. So there's [[...]] County Central Labor Council, tart, uh, even Denton for a while. Some smaller counties have off and on. Mm-hmm. Um, Austin has one, [[...]] . Oh. And, um, they're involved in politics and they're involved in organizing. It's the two facets of labor unions. You organize the unorganized

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Cold calls. Yeah, that's right. That's what all of 'em are. Um, so I've been involved with the labor community and the political community. I know, I know a lot of, or used to know a lot of politicians and labor leaders and, um, in this community and others. And I think it enlarged my vision of life. It, uh, I didn't wanna spend all my time among academics, and I treasure them, but I treasure all those labor and political leaders I met, and a lot of lawyers to be mm-hmm. Um, 'cause lawyers were in the labor movement and in politics. So

Yeah, that's right. Well, you would know that. That's right. Um, so that gave me, um, I don't know, a broader outlook on my career. I think

I kind of wanna talk a little bit more about your career. I know you've touched on it, but, uh, just for the record, what do you do for work and how do you think your connections in this community have sort of, uh, influenced your work?

Well, um, the, uh, the political participation, uh, interested me and, uh, one of my books, uh, my major book, other than the one I'm writing now, uh, is the establishment in Texas Politics. So it's Texas political history from the late thirties, uh, into, uh, through the, um, where is it cut off, uh, through the end of the sixties, into the early sixties. Um, and, um, it was well received and still in print. Actually, the establishment takes bought it as, as a paperback. Uh, it was used in classrooms at [[...]] and other universities for a while. Uh,

of course, it's kind of dated now because it cuts off in the sixties. It doesn't, several people asked me to bring it all up to date, and we was used in the classroom. Uh, God, I'd had enough of it. It was pretty depressing. Texas political histories, depressing for liberals.

Yeah. Yeah. But, uh, that was one book. And now that my current manuscript comes from my interest in labor, um, and going around the state and so on, and so all of the time period, it doesn't match because, uh, but even learning about modern labor helps me understand labor 150 years ago. I know what they're up to.

I'm a, I'm a government major at ut so I talk a lot about politics with my, uh, friends. And I'm also in Plan two, so it's a common topic of conversation, and I don't think people understand the labor influence really at all. Like, um, the [[...]] were just at the R and c, or at least the, uh, president of the [[...]] were. Um, and, uh, like a lot of my friends who were pretty politically involved in know anything about that or why that mattered. And I, I, so I think it's really, really cool that you worked on that.

Well, it used to matter more than it does now, because labor's weaker now than it used to be. Mm-hmm. Although it's the last few years, it's coming back and you have these novel, uh, organizational efforts done by people in the plant itself, like Starbucks and some of these other, they take the initiative. It's hard for labor unions to get to them anymore because of the constraints on labor, legals constraints. Now that's eased under Biden, but whenever you got a Republican president, they put people on the National Labor Relations Board who are anti-labor, and you just can't get any organizing done. And even if you do organize, you can't get, you can't get a, you can't engage in collective bargaining in a meaningful sense because management won't bargain. Mm-hmm. But if now you've got these young people organizing the place, then themselves without any help from unions, they'll, the unions will step in later or ask for or give help if asked. Um,

and that's kind of changed the, uh, the outlook for labor. Labor's a good deal more popular now mm-hmm. The last several years than it has been. And it's great for me to see it come back like that. Mm-hmm

to collect labor records. So that's what, that's when I went back from that convention to my head librarian and propose this, that we collect labor records. Mm-hmm. And he and I just started doing it. We drove out to United Arnold Workers local regional meeting, uh, in [[...]] . That was our first trip. Now, he didn't make any more trips. He had the library to run, but a couple of other professors helped me mm-hmm. Do that. Um, and, um, The guys in [[...]] did that. Oh. What was, uh, Georgia State, I guess it is. Or Think that's right. Whatever state universities in Atlanta. Um, they started a labor archives after we did. Um, and those two are still there. And, uh, still part of the, the archives in those two institutions. So it bore fruit at two universities. Mm-hmm.

I don't know of any other Southern Labor archives, but, but there are probably people at the University of [[...]] , for instance. And I know there are [[...]] in North Carolina that have collected some labor records, and that may have been inspired in part by what we did. I mean, they mm-hmm. They know of our collections.

Well, they're not at the [[...]] Center. They're over there at the, um, [[...]] Center. Oh, okay. Which shouldn't have been called that. It was originally the [[...]] Historical Center. Uh, he was somebody who did something for the university. He was a history professor way back when. Uh, but, uh, the head of it sold out, and now it's Dolf [[...]] gave him big bucks. So it, he never, he's never done anything for Texas history. Um, so it's now the [[...]] Center, but that's where the law labor records are that Ruth Allen collected. And they, and that's extensive. Not as big as ours, but it's extensive.

I might, I'll take a look at that when I go back in the fall. That actually sounds very interesting. I like historical topics. Yeah, I'm sure. So, I know you mentioned that you're writing a book right now. So what is your typical sort of workday or writing schedule look like?

Well, being retired, um, in theory, I have lots of free time, but, you know, other things go on. Life happens. And so we, we spend a good deal of time coming over here. Mm-hmm. Going to doctors, going to grocery stores. you can't, you can't spend a day writing mm-hmm. You can just spend part of a day writing. Um, and you don't want to sit too often. So sometimes I have my office rigged up where I can stand for a while.

Desk. Get on the computer. I know that you can buy these desks that lift up. I need to get one of those. I,

Alright. Well, we're started moving to a different segment of the interview. Now. I want to talk about your experiences as a resident of your community. For these questions. I'm going to read a statement and then I'd like you to indicate the extent of your agreement. I'll give you an answer. Uh, you'll have to give an answer on a scale from one to four, where one is completely disagree, two is somewhat disagree, three is somewhat agree, and then four is a complete agreement. If you'd like to comment on any of the statements, uh, feel free to do that too. Mm-hmm

Me too. Now, using the same scale, I'd like you to rate the following statement of, I consider myself to be a Texan.

The next phrase is to be a true Texan. You must know how to speak English. What would you rate this one given the scale we started with?

How about to be a true Texan? You must know how to speak Spanish. Sort of the flip side.

Ear. Alright. Finally. In my community life has been pretty stable over the last 40 years. Things haven't changed much. Mm-hmm.

All right. Just a few more questions. What are some of the things that have changed in this community during the last few decades?

The last few decades? I know we've sort of gone over that already a lot, so if you just wanna give bullet points, that's good too.

Last few decades. What's changed? Oh, well, um, well, as I say, we've got a lot more restaurants now in the last few decades and more entertainment. And, uh, it's, um, it's a more lively community in a bigger city than it was several decades ago. And generally, I'd say it's changed for the better, except that people just keep on coming and there's gotta be Well, that's true. The whole metroplex and the whole state that, uh, overpopulation, I guess is a threat. Of course, it's a threat to the world. I've read that the carrying capacity of this planet is about 3 billion and we have, what, I don't know, 15 or 20 billion. Yeah. And, uh, we can't go on like this, but, but you know, that's the big picture.

I find the population stuff to be just really interesting. Um, that's something I've read a lot about, you know, sort of everything from Thomas mouth is to Yeah. The modern thinkers on that. I think the current estimates of the population will stabilize around 10 billion, and then we'll just learn to live with that. So I'm gonna be a little curious

Yeah, I'm, I'm gonna be serious, curious to see how it carries out, especially if, uh, you know, considering how many resources it takes for the, uh, you know, the average

American. Yeah. That's the thing. Although they keep pulling rabbits outta the hat, and they may, uh, we may actually get, uh, fusion, you know, just get energy out of walks and so mm-hmm. You know, if we can do that, then Okay. Maybe we'll make it, I don't

Yeah. Like, uh, we're always talking about running out of resources or become independent on a sort of a hostile foreign state for resources. But, uh, it seems that, like we always find a, like some American farmer finds a random store in the middle of nowhere,

Yeah. Geography. But I can complain about that. But, you know, I went where the job was. Yeah.

That's the one thing. Uh, I feel like North Texas is lacking. It would be good to have a, you know, some national parks or something around here.

I suppose prairie's pretty in its own way, but not, yeah. Not everybody's cup of tea, you know.

Well, yeah. It, um, I remember I used, we used to drive through West Texas, a bunch of historians made a few trips through West Texas going to conventions in [[...]] . Mm-hmm. And I, I remarked one day this, this terrain has a power of its own. Most of them weren't from Texas. Were not from Texas. They had never seen a landscape like that. And I said, you, you've got to be kidding. A power of its own. It's just bleak. But, you know, it does. Uh, there, we, we went to a Meteor Crater, for instance, at Midland, and, uh, that was interesting. Uh, but, uh, yeah, it's, um, it's pretty hard to make a national park out of that. Sure.

A little bit lonely, but you know, it's so dark. You can see any stars you want class

The best part of it? Um, well, the best part of growing up was simply meeting the people I met. And some of 'em became fast friends and, uh, some of 'em are still friends. Mm-hmm. Of course, some have died along the way. Um, and, um, Austin was a neat place back in the [[...]] and sixties. Uh, we did have some scenery there, the Colorado River and the Hill Country, just west of town. Mm-hmm. As you know. Yeah. Um, and, uh, we've spent a lot of time out there in high school mm-hmm. And in, uh, and four years in UT as well, uh, with some of the same friends, uh, TRAs around the whole country. Um, so yeah, that was, uh, that meant a lot, uh, more to me than most anything else did. Yeah.

Yeah. They've dammed up their, it used to be called Town Lake, the part of the Colorado that's dammed up there, but it's, uh, they've renamed it Lady Bird Lake recently. And I, I spent a, they renamed it, uh, to Lady Bird Lake.

Yeah. But it's okay. You know what, they've, they, they've had enough success. It's

My parents do that with me too, so, yeah. That has not changed.

Now, today, I, I do carry out the garbage a lot and then go to the stores. And my wife does all that stuff too. We both do all the usual things. Sometimes she has me vacuuming and she can talk me into changing my bed.

. I don't exactly remember how we managed that. We didn't know what we were doing. Uh, but what we were saying was something that he denied. Um, but it wasn't that terrible mm-hmm. Um, and he thought he was being misunderstood. Mm-hmm. But, um, but it definitely was awkward.

Pop music? Well, for me it was the sixties with, uh, Peter Paul and Mary and, uh, the Chad Mitchell Trio. And, uh, uh, the Beatles came along. I I was more enamored with folk music, but some of the Beatles were spoken be, um, and, um, well, I was with labor leaders once, a couple of 'em, I don't know where we were. We went into this tavern outside, probably outside of Austin, somewhere around Flew to real or someplace like that. And they were having a, a country singer come in. I'm more into folk than country, but they're related. And anyway, they were dragging me along. And, uh, we had the place to ourselves and we were up in a balcony, open balcony. The performer was down on stage. He had just gotten married. And he, uh, he asked us if we would sit with his wife.

Alright. That's the conclusion of that passage. Alright. So that's the conclusion of our interview. If you have any other questions, please just let me know and, uh, if you'd like a ut t-shirt or anything I can send as a thank you for this. I really appreciate it. I found this very interesting. I've done a lot of these and this has been my, my favorite interview so far. Definitely

So I, I I really liked hearing about uh, Austin because uh, I feel like people are, my professors are always griping about how the old Austin was so much cooler. And so I told my, my parents went to ut so I told my parents about that and they were like, well our professors were also always griping about how the old Austin was cooler. I think the, uh, so I think the old Austin is just however Austin is, whenever you're like 20, you know, doing That's probably right. Young, young people things. Yeah. Yeah. That is probably right. Alright, well I'm gonna stop the recording now.